http://tugan-tel.at.tt/forum Э tuрan tel Tatar tele turэnda sдxifд YBS Ezlдw Soсрэlar Дрzдlдr Tцrkemnдr Terkдlь Юдxesnдmд Юдxsi xatlanэ tikюer subTrail Kerь -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “Latнnдlif mдs'дlдse” Bдxдslдr -> Рцmьmi bдxдs Uzрan cep :: Kilдse cep Yazрan Xдbдr al Beri Terkдlь: 30 Apr 2003 23:36 Xдbдr: 702 Qaydan: Cir цste Qaldэrdэ: 18 Dek 2004 07:18 Baюlэq: “Latнnдlif mдs'дlдse” -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Latнnдlif mдs'дlдse dip Tatar telendд yazu цзen Yaсalifne рдmдlgд qaytartu waqэtэnda kilep зэqqan qнэnlэqlarnэ atнlar. Yaсalifne qaytartu eюe 2000. yэldan baюlap 2011. yэlрa tikle 10 yэlрa suzэlрan, wд ul rдsmi rдweюtд qabul itelgдn qanun buyэnзa bara. Axmaqlar Yэю Birgдn Sorawlarэ Qayberдwlдr юaqtн kьp nadan sorawlarnэ birдlдr. Menд alarnэс berniздse: Tatar tele цзen Latнnдlif Urэsдliftдn зэnlap ta qulayraqmэ? Hiзюiksez! Urэsдliftд Tatarnэс berniзд awazэ citmi, hдm kiresenзд, Tatarзada bulmagan, kirдkmдgдn awazlar bar, nдticдdд sьzlдr bozэlэp yazэla. Xдttд Urэsдlifneс “biюege” bulgan Bolgarstan da Latнnдlifkд kьзь turэnda uylana, Urэs telen Latнnдlifkд kьзerergд зaqэrgan Urэs рalimnдre bar. Latinga qaytunэс tagэn ber faydasэ: kьзь waqэtэnda рдmдldдge нmla citeюsezleklдren tцzдtep bula (alar citдrlek). Urэsдliftд xдreflдr kьbrдk iз, nдrsдgд almaюtэrasэ soс? Urэsдliftд bulрan xдreflдr Tatar tele цзen kirдkmi. Tatar [w] awazэn зuqэnmэю «щ» yд ki «ё» xдrefe belдn kьrsдtmдsseс iз. Raslangan дlifba iс kamileme? Dцnyada kamil nдrsд yuq, raslanрan дlifba – un yэl barрan bдxдs nдticдsendд ireюelgдn kileюь. “Kamillдюterьne” dдwam itergд mцmkin, дmmд axэr зiktд “qaю tцzдtim dip kьz зэрarэrрa” bula. Юura qabul itkдn, prezident нmzalaрan qanun 2001. 1. Sentдberennдn рдmдlgд kermдsд, Tatar tarнxэ forsatnэ эзqэndэra digдn sьz. Urэs xдreflдre belдn basэlgan дdдbi mнras yuqqa зэqmasmэ? Ul ber qaya da kitmдyдздk, 10 yэl buyэ ike дlifba ber yulэ yдюiдздk, xalэq ul kitaplarnэ uquэn dдwam itдздk, 2001. yэlсэn 2. Sentдberendд Urэsдlifne berkem dд onэtэrga cнэnmн. Дdдbi дsдrlдr daimi rдwюetд yaсadan basэlэp tora, menд юularэn aqrэnlap Latнnдlifta basa baюlarga kirдk. Soсgэ waqэtta basэlрan kьp kenд дsдrlдrneс elektron юдkele bar, alarnэ Latнnдlifkд automat rдweюendд bik ciсel kьзerep bula. Monэс цзen maxsus programnar bar, yazu юдkellдre дzer. Fдqдt, tдwдkkдllдrgд kirдk. Urэsдliftд bastэrэlрan bik zur дdдbi mнrasnэ yaсadan niзek bastэrasэ? “Urэsдliftд bastэrэlрan bik zur дdдbi mнras” ul ьze ber дkiдt, sovet зorэnda Tatarзa bastэrэlрan kitaplar bik дz buldэ, зцnki 2. Dцnyasuрэю waqэtэnda Tatar yazuзэlar berlege tulayэm diдrlek wafat buldэ. Эsдn qalрannarnэ Urэslar propaganda eюenд cibдrgдnnдr. Sovet propaganda цзen “нcat” itelgдn 10,000 nдrsдne tulayэm Yaсalifkд kьзermдskд dд bula, зэn mнrasnэ kьзerь belдn genд зiklдnep. Urэsдlifkд kьnekkдn bцten xalэqlnэ niзek цyrдtдse? Tatar xalqэnэс iс kьbe 25 % qэna ana telendд sцylдюд ala, alarnэс цзtдn berse genд ana telendд uqн/yaza belд. Bu 10 % цyrдtь цзen kьp nдrsд kirдkmi, 10 yэl eзendд цyrдnerlдr. Qartlarnэ niзek цyrдtmдkзe bulasэz? Yaсalifkд kьзь 10 yэlрa qartlar цзen suzэlрan da. Tatarstanda yдюдmдgдnnдrne yaсa дlifbaрa niзek цyrдtmдkзe bulasэz? Tatarstanda yдюдmдgдnnдre, Urэs xцkьmдtenд rдxmдt дytik, ana telendд uqu/yazu tьgel sцylдюд dд almнlar, dimдk alarnэ цyrдtдse yuq. Alarрa Tatar telen bцtenlдy цyrдtergд kirдk. Tцrkiд, Finlandia sэnma illдrdд yдюдgдn Tatarlar ana telen dд, Yaсalifne dд belдlдr. Tatarstanda yдюдmдgдnnдrne yaсa дlifbaрa kьздrgд telдmilдr iз! Kьздrgд telдmim dip digдnnдre ana telen belmilдr dд, belergд dд telдmilдr, alarрa зэnlap ta kьзьdдn fayda yuq. Tatarstannan зittд yдюдgдn Tatarlar belдn ni bulэr? Berni bulmas, Tatarstanda Yaсaliftд basэlрan basmalar yдrdдmendд alar da aqrэnlap yaсa дlifbaрa kьздrlдr. Tatarstanрa barэ tik nдюriдt eюen kцздytergд kirдk bulaзaq. Зittд yдюдgдn Tatarlar цзen Mдskдw bolay da kitap bastэrmн. Tatarlar Urэsдliftдn “mдxrьm” qalmasmэ? Tatarlar Urэsзa yazрanda Urэs xдreflдre belдn yazuэn dдwam itдздkter. Yaсalifkд bar Tatarstan tьgel, fдqдt Tatar yazmasэ kьзд! Uramdaрэ yazmalarnэ niзek almaюtэrmaqзэ bulasэz? Tэюqэ yazmalar 10 yэl eзendд зerep betдlдr, зergдз, ьz waqэtэ kilgдз yaсalarрa almaюэnэr. Дlifba ьzgдrtь artэq qimmдtkд tцюmдsme? Tatarstannэс moсa aqзasэ yuq digдn safsata эюanэrlэq tьgel. Kьзьneс berenзe yэlэna kirдk bulgan aqзa cцmhьriдt xдzinдseneс 0,1% tдюkil itд. Эnde bu aqзa da tabэlmasa, юundн tдqdim: 30. Augustta Mцstдkillek kцnen ьtkдrep tormasqa, юul aqзaga - Latнnдlifkд qaytэrрa! Latнnдlifkд qaytu fдnni, нctнmaрн, yд bulmasa sдyдsi mдs'дlдme? Nigezdд ul fдnni-mдdдni mдsдlд: Yaсalif telneс yazэlэюэn ciсelдyдtд, zamanзa teknologнрa, Эnternet юartlarэna turэ kilд, lдkin Mдskдw tэrэюlэрэ belдn sдyдsдt dдrдcдsenд kьtдrelд. Bьgen Latнnдlifkд qaytu ul Tatarnэс yдюдp qaluэna ber sэnaw. Latнnдlifkд qaytu turэndaрэ qanun xaqlэmэ? Bцtenlдy xaqlэ! Dцnyadagэ ber genд qanunga da qarюэ kilmi, hдm dд bu Tatar millдteneс ьz eюe. Bu Tatar xalqэ qararэmэ, дllд “berniзд keюe tarafэnnan uylap зэрarэlрan uydэrma рэna mэ”? Ul зэn mдрnдdд Tatar xalqэ qararэ, 1997. yэlda Bцtendцnya Tatar Kongressэ tarafэnnan qabul itelgдn. Kongress ul bar dцnyada Tatarlarэn wдkillek itkдn oyэюma bulэp tora. Latнnдlifkд kьздrgдme, kьзmдskдme dip referendum uzdэrmasqamэ? Andн referendum niзek uzdэrmaqзэ bulasэс? Anda Tatarlar рэna tawэю birergд tieюme, yд ki зuqэnuзэ kьrюe millдt keюelдre dд? Tatarlar рэna bulsa, alarnэ niзek ayэrэrрa, bдlki tawэю birь aldэnnan tawэюbirьзeneс qanэn genetik yaqtan tikюerдse? Andн referendum ana telen belgдn Tatarlar arasэnda рэna uzdэrasэmэ, yд ki зuqэnэp-urэslaюэp betkдn tatarinnar arasэnda da? Tatarзa sцylдюьзelдre arasэnda рэna uzdэrэrрa bulsaq, tawэюbirьзeneс ana telen belьen kem tikюerep torэr, bдlki tawэю birь aldэnnan нmtнxan uzdэrmaqзэmэ? Andн referendum uzdэru mцmkin dд tьgel, yьlдrgд salэnma. Дlifba alэюtэru Tatarstanda kierenkelek tudэrmasmэ, Urэsianэс cimerelьenд kitermдsme? Urэsia cimerelьenд kitersenie ul, дmma зэnlэqta mondн цrketьlдr – baюэnnan axэrэna qдdдr uydэrma рэna. Sovetlar Berlegendд Gцrcilдr, Дrmдnnдr 70 yэl buyэ ьz дlifbasэnda yazdэ, дmmд bu Berlekneс cimerelьenд kitermдde, ul bцtenlдy baюqa sдbдplдrdдn tarqaldэ. YOMРAQ – Yaсalifkд kem qarюэ? Tatarnэс alрa kitьen telдmдgдn, Urэsianэ fдqдt зuqэnuзэ mдmlдkдte itep kьrergд telдgдn kцзlдr, alarрa yabэюqan quюtannar, 21. рasэrnэс “юah-рдlilдre”. Yaсalif uсaylэqlarэ Yaсalif tцrle cнhazlarda da bar (sanaq, kesдfon, TV, …). Yaсalif цзen berbaytlэ bilgelдmдlдr bar. Yaсalif цзen maxsus Tatar юдkellдren yasнsэ yuq. Yaсalif nigezendд Tatar telen цyrдtь kьpkд tizrдk bara. Yaсalif ul Tatar telenд urэs awazlar kermдwenд ьze ber зik. Yaсalif belдn urэs sьzlдrne yazarрa uсaysэz, dimдk Yaсalifkд kьзь urэs sьzlдrdдn qotэlэrрa bulэюa. Kamil Tatar tele цзen ciсel, kamil wд mantнqlэ bulрan Latнnдlifle yazu bik tд kileюд. sanaqta Tatarзa/Almanзa/Эnglizзд/... mдten cнрanda tцylek цзen ber gena caylaw quyarрa bula, cнu waqэtэnda caylaw almaюtэrasэ yuq, butalmнsэс. Yaсalif belдn yazэlрan Tatar iseme зitil tanэqlэqlarэnda ьzgдrelmiзд/bozэlmнзa ber kileю yazэla, ike tцrle yazэlu belдn butalэю betд, зцnki Latнnдlifle isemnдrne bar cirdд dд bar xдrдkдlдr belдn yazalar. Tatarstanda Latнnдlifle pasport birьen baюlarрa kirдk. Yaсalifkд bar Tцrki xalэqlar da kьздrlдr, ber berse belдn Tцrki telendд aralaюэrрa mцmkinlek tua. Yaсalifkд kьзь ana tele belдn qэzэqsэnunэ arttэra. Yaсalifkд kьзь milli xis kьtдrд, ьz xalqэnnan oyalanmasqa цyrдtд. Yaсalifkд kьзь urэslaюtэruрa taрэna ber bдlдkдy kirtд sala. Yaсalifkд kьзь Tatar telenд kiс qullanuрa kerergд mцmkinlek birд! Mдs'дlд tarнxэ 2. Bцtentatar Kongresэnda Tatar telendд yazunэ Latнnдlifkд kьзerergд qaraq зэрarэla, bar wдkillдr dд bu fikerne xuqlн, qarюэ зэрuзэlar bulmaрan. 1999. yэlda Tatarstan prдzidente Yaсalifkд kьзь turэnda qanunрa qul quya. 2003. yэlda Tatarstan цзen зitil bulрan Urэsia parlamentэ Urэsiadaрэ xalэq tellдre цзen Urэsдlifne kenд qullanэrрa yarн digдn qanun зэрara, wд Urэsbaюэ aсa ьz qul quya. 2004. yэlnэс 16. Nцyдberendд, Xalэqara «Tьzemlek kцne», Urэs qanun mдxkдmдse Tatar telen Yaсalifkд qaytartuэn tнa torрan qanun xaqlэ buluэn raslн. Tatarlar цзen зitil bulрan Urэsiada Yaсalifne qullanu xoquqsэz bulэp зэрa. Tatarstanda isд kьзь dдwam itд. 2004. yэlnэс 18. Nцyдberdд Yaсalifne yaqlн torрan «Latнn frontэ» oyэюa. Цskд men qdb Qunaq Qaldэrdэ: 18 Dek 2004 13:01 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Urэsдliftд Tatarnэс berniзд awazэ citmi, hдm kiresenзд Latinalifta da Tatarnэс berniзд awazэ citmay. >Latinga qaytunэс tagэn ber faydasэ: kьзь waqэtэnda рдmдldдge нmla citeюsezleklдren tцzдtep bula (alar citдrlek). xazrgi waqtta planlaS-tr-l-u-ci variant Latinga kuckandan soN Sul imla citsszlklarinin in zurisi 'e' xarfinga turi kiluwci awaz mas'alasi bulacaq: - http://tugan-tel.noka.ru/forum/viewtopic?t=173. conki ul butaldrp bttra: et ul et tugl - et ul it. sul uq waqtta ali it digan suznN bar-lGi tagn da butaldra, yagni it digan suznN bar-lGi et-nN et iykanliginga tagn da iSandra. Ham buw citSszlkni LatinGa kuckan waqtta tozatp bula. A xazrgi kucrga ciyinuwcilar buw 'e' xarfiniN maGnasini kirill yazuwinda bulGaninca saqlap qalmaqcilar. AllaGa Sokor, ali kuctra almadilar. Xazr Sulay aSGp kucsalar, boton torki donyanN yazuwini bolGatp bittirirlar iydi. kirill Xarflari bilan latin xariflari ham grek xarflari- 'tuGan'nar:A-A-alfa, x-x(iks)-x(xi), к-k-kappa,e-e-epsilon, ham baSqalar. Ni ocon iN zurisi? Conki ul 'e' xarfi butaldracaq, a baSqalari, masalan 'iks'xarfini 'x'magnasi bilan qullanuw ul daracada uk butaldrmay. Conki buw magnada qullanu grektagi 'xi' magnasini qaytaruw, ham 'iks' xarfili cit il suzlarini 'ks' diyp yazarGa da momkin.(iki xarf bilan) >Urэsдliftд bulрan xдreflдr Tatar tele цзen kirдkmi. amma qaybr tatarlar ocon ekonomia ocon kirak, conki faktta qaybr tatarlar urs tilinni da bla:http://tugan-tel.noka.ru/forum/viewtopic?t=227 > “Kamillдюterьne” dдwam itergд mцmkin, дmmд axэr зiktд “qaю tцzдtim dip kьz зэрarэrрa” bula. Cidi qat ulcA, br qat kis. buw ocraqta cnlap ta kamillдюterьne dдwam iytrgд kirak. >Юura qabul itkдn, prezident нmzalaрan qanun 2001. 1. Sentдberennдn рдmдlgд kermдsд, Tatar tarнxэ forsatnэ эзqэndэra digдn sьz. Юura qabul itkдn, prezident нmzalaрan qanun 2001. 1. Sentдberennдn рдmдlgд kersд, Tatar tarнxэ normal, torkilar ocon aNlaySli alifbaga iya buluw forsatэnэ эзqэndэra digдn sьz. br qaycan da anday iSlarni Юura qabul itд almay: Allah tlamasa. >Latнnдlifkд qaytu turэndaрэ qanun xaqlэmэ? >Bцtenlдy xaqlэ! Dцnyadagэ ber genд qanunga da qarюэ kilmi, hдm dд bu Tatar millдteneс ьz eюe. Demokratia, anarxia diyp balki monno atarsz: ol qanunlar tatarstanniqi da, rusiyaniki da nedeystvitel'niy, onlarni botonlay kurmamSka salSrga mOmkin, onlarGa bOtOnlAy iGtibar iytmaska. Conki bit demokratia, 'bazar zakonnari, ekonomikasi' - km nick tlay, sulay yaza. agar br ksinN yazuwini adresati (uqucisi, xatni aluwci) aNlamayacaq iykan, ul kSi aNlaSlrlq iytp yazarGa macbur bulacaq. km nick tlay, sulay yazsn - xt(xot')(tlasa) Garapca ,xt qtayca, xt Morze bilan. 'bazar iqtisadi' mexanizmlari barisini uzi koylayacak, allah yardami bilan. br yuli brnica yazuw da yasay ala -yaponlarniNqi Siklli. >Tatar millдteneс ьz eюe hдr kiSinN ьz iюi. "Tatar millдti" [gomuman][dorosoni gna Aytkanda] ul yuq, bari tik cir Ostinda tatarca soylaSuci kiSilar yaSap yata, taGn onlarnN br az urtaq kultur elementlari bar[, urtaq gennar turnda br suz da atmaym!]. Ham Sulay uq urs millati da yuq, baSqa millatlar da yuq. km da km 'fAlAn- fAlAn millat' diyp AytA - ul caSqan. (conki balki ul Saharda Uskandr.) >Bu Tatar xalqэ qararэmэ, дllд “berniзд keюe tarafэnnan uylap зэрarэlрan uydэrma рэna mэ”? >Ul зэn mдрnдdд Tatar xalqэ qararэ, 1997. yэlda Bцtendцnya Tatar Kongressэ tarafэnnan >qabul itelgдn. Kongress ul bar dцnyada Tatarlarэn wдkillek itkдn oyэюma bulэp tora. 'Tatar xalqi' uzi tlagan narsani iSlasa ul dOrOs iSlamaska da mOmkin. lakin 'Tatar xalqi'nN tlaklarini da Allah barlqqa kiltra. 'Tatar xalqi' da AllahinN qolo. uz tlagi bilan iSlasa da, tlaginga qarSi islasa da, ul cnlqta macburiy rawSta iSlay. iN doros yul da bar -ul yulni Allah blA. >Дlifba alэюtэru Tatarstanda kierenkelek tudэrmasmэ, Urэsianэс cimerelьenд kitermдsme? ul turidan-turi rusianэс cimerelьenд bulSmay, ta'sir iytmay, bari tik kosvenno(buw urs suzi), narsalardr artqili, narsalardr aradaSciliGi bilan. onlay iykan, buw onlarnN Uz problemalari -onlar da tlasa ni iSlasnnar -alfavitlarini uzgartsinnar -urs tlinN alfaviti uzgaruw tatar tilinga ziyan kiltra diyp sanaybz iykan -bonoso da bznN Uz problemabz bulacaq. > Yaсalif uсaylэqlarэ a 'yaNalif'nN nacar yaqlari qayda? masalan, anda yigit, kiSi, blm suzlarindagi 'i'("ie") awazin-ga(OcOn) ismi cisminga turi kila torgan tamga yuq. >Yaсalifkд bar Tцrki xalэqlar da kьздrlдr, ber berse belдn Tцrki telendд aralaюэrрa mцmkinlek tua. ay-hay, nick uNSli ,uNayli aralaSa alrlar iykan, tatar aGayi 'et' ni et diyp aNlasa, a tork aGayi 'et'ni it diyp aNlasa? tatar aGayi gna tugl, latinga kuckan waqtta "e" xarfinN maGnAsini kirillitsadagica saqlap qalgan baSqa BDB(SNG),SSSR(SSRS, USSR) tOrki xalqlari da. Sulay uq yevropa suzlari tatar tilinga kuckanda onlardaGi "e" awazi yigit, kiSi, blm digandagi 'i'("ie") awazinga kucmay bit! electronni 'i(-yigit digandagi)lktron' diyp aytmaybz iC, 'iliktrun' diyp aytabz! >2004. yэlnэс 16. Nцyдberendд, Xalэqara «Tьzemlek kцne», Urэs qanun mдxkдmдse >Tatar telen Yaсalifkд qaytartuэn tнa torрan qanun xaqlэ buluэn raslн. minm bluwmca, ul azrak bOgOStrp, sorawGa turi cawap birmadi, bari tik 'kirillitsada yazuw konstitutsiaga qarSi tugl' diyp kna ayta aldi. Цskд men qdb Qunaq Qaldэrdэ: 18 Dek 2004 13:03 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- narsa ul "Yabэюma:"? Цskд men al Beri Terkдlь: 30 Apr 2003 23:36 Xдbдr: 702 Qaydan: Cir цste Qaldэrdэ: 21 Dek 2004 15:08 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- abaw… awэr inde sine uqu qdb yaza: A xazrgi kucrga ciyinuwcilar buw 'e' xarfiniN maGnasini kirill yazuwinda bulGaninca saqlap qalmaqcilar. AllaGa Sokor, ali kuctra almadilar. Xazr Sulay aSGp kucsalar, boton torki donyanN yazuwini bolGatp bittirirlar iydi. [п] awazэn «e» itep yazuэbэz ul iс ere citeюsezlegebez buluэn ilд kileюьemne kьptдn beldergдniem iз inde. Дmmд Tцrki yazuэnэ bolрatabэz diьeс berlдn kileюmim, ul kьptдn bolрatэlрanнэ, Tцrki dдwlдtlдr baюlarэnda nindider aсрэraw utэralar, hдrese “mцstдqil tel” tarafdarlarэ, Дzerilдr kire «e» xдrefen цstдgдnnдr, Tцrekmдnnдrgд «э» xдrefe oюamaрan, Цzbдklдrneс yazuэ bцtenlдy tile. Tatar дlifbasэna da дkдmдtlдrne kertkдnnдr, anda kьbrдk qart usraqlar qatnaюqan bulрan. Дytдlдr iз «ike Tatar cнэlрanda dьrt fiker barlэqqa kilд». Sin nдrsд xдzer «qanunnэ ьzgдrtmдsдgez xara-kiri yasarmэn» dip зэрarsэсmэ inde? Yд inde ьz дlifba qullanmaqзэ bulasэсmэ? Sin andн ber ьzeс genд bulmassэс, dцresen дytдm, baюqa keюlдr dд ьz дlifbasэn uylap зэрarэrlar. Menд bu зэnlap ta dцnya kцldertь bulэr. Дnд Qazan kirmдnendд ber дkдmдt дdдm utэra, aсa biюtapqэrlэ namaz oюamaрaз, “cдdidizm” tarafdarэ bulрan, ul nдrsд “Tatar mazbaxэ” bulэp зэqqan ikдn, “bцten Нslam dцnyasэn uzэp, Tatarlar alрa зabэr” imeю. Annarэ aсa qabul itelgдn дlifba oюamaрaз, “inalif” digдn nдrsд uylap зэрarрan, Tatarlar юul inalif belдn “bцten Tцrki dцnyasэn uzэp, Tцreklдrne dд artta qaldэrэrlar” imeю. Yuq, andн yьlдrlekkд salэnэrрa kirдkmi, anarhнnэ yasarрa kirдkmi. Min dд “Zamanalif” sьzen qullanuрa kertep yalрэюlэq yasaрanmэn. Xдzer anэ turэnda “ul «н» xдrefe цstдlengдn rдsmi дlifba рэna” dip aсlatэrрa mдcbьrmen. Ber ni dд ьzgдrelmдs, Qazan kirmдnendд olэbaюэ utэralar, alar цзen Turanзэlэq ber ni dд tьgel. Xдzer qabul itelgдn дlifbaрa tizrдk kьздrgд kirдk, irtдgд soс bulэr. Bezgд ni turэnda uylarрa bula ul berdдm Tцrki sьzlegen tцzep, Turanзэlэqqa baрэюlanрan sдxifдlдrdд berdдm Tцrki нmla qullanu. Beraz sabэrlэqta bul, “mцstдqil” дlifbalar kilдздktд barэber ьlдrlдr, Allah boyэrsa berдr 25-50 yэldan soс berdдm дlifbaрa kьздrbez. Tцrki sцylдmnдrendд qullanuda yцri torрan sьzlдrne berlдюterep bik kцзle sцylдm yasarbэz. Юul sцylдmdд 200 mln keюe sцylдюer, 50 yэldan soс ul 300 mln bulэrdэr дle. qdb yaza: narsa ul "Yabэюma:"? Yalрэюmasam ul «en:Sticky» urэnэna yazэlрanнэ, gel цstд yцzep yцri torрan cep, yabэюqanday. Bдlki «Yabэюtэrma» itep quyu dцresrдk bulэrнэ. Unicode.org kьndermдsendд xдreflдrebez turэnda bдxдslдюep alрannarнэ inde ikдn. Anda ber duсрэz kerep-tэзэp ta hawa bozэp yцrgдnie. Дytдm iз, bar kergдn cirlдremdд зuqэnmэюlarрa terдlдm. Ber keюe xдbдrenд ber urэs duсрэz menд nдrsд yaza: > Conclusion: > 1) The Republic of Tatarstan passed a law in 1999 and coming into force in 2001 establishing a Tatar Latin alphabet. > 2) A Russian federal law (a monstrous piece of linguistic imperialism) overrode this in 2002, so after the Tatarstan law had come into force. Therefore this Latin alphabet was in some sense officially in force for a period. And it is still considered to be officially in force by many in Tatarstan including top government officials. Peter, your estimates of Russian federal law are inadequate and go beyond the scope of this list. > 3) As the people of Tatarstan are independent-minded and more likely to follow their local leaders than the linguistic imperialists in Moscow, it is highly likely that at least some of them use the published Latin script even if it is not permitted to have official status. Wow, where did you get this epithet? I agree with that, especially given that 43 percent of Tatarstan's population are Russians. > 5) This is an alphabet which has been used, even in official > websites, and very likely continues to be used by some. Decisions > made in Moscow do not change this, especially because they are in > practice widely ignored in Tatarstan Once again, Peter, you're going off the topic. You're invited to prove your assumptions with facts or withdraw them. I personally consider statements of this kind as veiled attacks to Russia's statehood. Please, stop that. > "The conversion from Cyrillic to Latin script is planned within years > 2001-2011." This is false. > 3. The case pair n with descender is definitely not encoded, and from my > memory of the discussion of ghe with descender, we would want to encode > them as separate characters (rather than with combining descenders on > "n"). Is anybody working on that proposal? There's no Latin Tatar script. It's the law. Full stop. It's the Institute of Estonian language. I hope they know more about Estonian than about other languages and Unicode. Tatarlarрa beraz tererдk bulmaq kirдk, qatnaюэp ьz sьzen qэstarрalap yцrergд, зuqэnmэюlardan yaqlawзэlarэbэz bar, urэs faюнstlarnэ bar keюelдr dд yaratmн. _________________ Cir tetrдtkдn Tatar irlдre, Kemgд qaldэrdэрэz illдrne?! Цskд men Юamil Эdдrдзe Terkдlь: 01 May 2003 09:49 Xдbдr: 373 Qaydan: Qazan Qaldэrdэ: 22 Dek 2004 00:46 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xдzerge дlifba taрэn da uсaylэ hдm universal bula ala ide, tormэюqa kьnekkдnrдk bula ala ide. Эdeal-рцmьmtцrki дlifba turэnda sьz alэp barmasaq ta, kimennдn Эdel-Ural yдki Qэpзaq tellдre цзen urtaqqa oxюaрan nдrsд yasarрa mцmkin. Lдkin дlege adэmda xдzerge дlifbanэс zдрif toruэn terдrgд kirдk, tдrbiд eюenд zur дhдmiдt kьrsдtergд kirдk, minemзд _________________ Nдrsд sine alрa alэp bara? Uylap qara, uylap qara (Э tuрa-an tel!) Nдrsд bezgд yдrdдm itд? Д? (Э_ ma~matu~ur tel) © Barda RAP cэrзэlarэ Цskд men Azat Badr-ad-Din Terkдlь: 04 Цkt 2003 19:14 Xдbдr: 28 Qaydan: Maryland, AKS Qaldэrdэ: 28 Dek 2004 17:31 Baюlэq: Mдsxдrд dдwдm itд -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Latin belдn saubullaюu Quote: Bьgen TR Yugarэ Sudэ 1999 elnэс sentyabr aenda kabul itelgдn "Latin grafikasэ nigezendд tatar alfavitэn torgэzu turэnda"gэ Tatarstan respublikasэ Zakonэ federalnekenд karюэlэklэ hдm gamдldдn зэkkan dip taptэ. Bu mille mдsxдrд qaзan betдздk inde. Uсэюlэ asuзэlar kebek bezneс aurlэqnэ ber niзд qarar ьtkдrep bezneс дcдlne suzalar. Kafkanэс дsдrlдrdд kebek bezne mэsqэl itдlдr. Tfu! Цskд men al Beri Terkдlь: 30 Apr 2003 23:36 Xдbдr: 702 Qaydan: Cir цste Qaldэrdэ: 28 Dek 2004 20:31 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Abbbawww… bar ikдn дle andн юahрдlilдr… bu зэnlap ta mдsxдrд iз. Tatar cirendд urnaюэlрan “Tatar guvernэsэnэс” soсрэ zaman baюlanрandэr inde. Bьtдn bu duсрэzlarnэ saylatmasqa kirдk. Guvernbaюэ kьbrдk TatNeft yazmэюэ belдn borзэladэr, юuсa kьrд ьz xalqэn sata. s.u. miсa xдbдr kilgдn, yдkюдmbe kцne Azatlэqta Latнnдlif turэnda qэzэq nдrsд bulрan ikдn, Latнnдlif mдs'дlдse Strasbourg mдxkдmдsendд ьz qaraluэn kцtд, Piterburda yдюi torрan Bolрarн atlэ ber abzн юikдyдt birgдn ikдn, bu yэl baюэnda inde, юikдyдt eюkд qabul itelgдn inde. Qэzрanэзqa Azatlэq sдxifдsendд bu xдbдr yuq, alar юimbд/yдkюдmbe kцnnдrendд yaсartmнlar ikдn. _________________ Cir tetrдtkдn Tatar irlдre, Kemgд qaldэrdэрэz illдrne?! Цskд men al Beri Terkдlь: 30 Apr 2003 23:36 Xдbдr: 702 Qaydan: Cir цste Qaldэrdэ: 28 Dek 2004 21:28 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Azatlэq: Strasbourg Court To Hear On Lawsuit Promoting Tatar Latin Alphabet Azatlэq yaza: St. Petersburg resident Chulpan Bolgari told RFE/RL's Tatar-Bashkir Service on 26 December that his appeal against the prohibition by the Russian government on the introduction of Latin script in Tatarstan has been accepted for consideration by the Strasbourg-based International Court of Human Rights. In 2003, Bolgari's appeal to the Russian Constitutional Court was denied because it does not hear claims by individuals. In his latest appeal, Bolgari reportedly listed five articles of the Russian Constitution that violate the law stipulating the mandatory use of the Cyrillic script by all state languages in Russia, which was passed by the Federal Assembly and signed into law by the Russian president. s.u. Bu Зulpan Bolgari abzн min tьgel buluэn aсlaрansэzdэr inde, ul minem nдselemnдn dд tьgel. _________________ Cir tetrдtkдn Tatar irlдre, Kemgд qaldэrdэрэz illдrne?! Цskд men qdb Qunaq Qaldэrdэ: 05 Рнn 2005 11:48 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. >>2004. yэlnэс 16. Nцyдberendд, Xalэqara «Tьzemlek kцne», Urэs qanun mдxkдmдse >>Tatar telen Yaсalifkд qaytartuэn tнa torрan qanun xaqlэ buluэn raslн. >minm bluwmca, ul azrak bOgOStrp, sorawGa turi cawap birmadi, bari tik 'kirillitsada yazuw konstitutsiaga qarSi tugl' diyp kna ayta >aldi. ayta aldi -> aytti. 2. yanalif diygan maqalada xata sman br aybr: yanaliftagi y y tugl, (j y). Цskд men Vaner Alper Terkдlь: 24 Sen 2003 12:46 Xдbдr: 54 Qaydan: Zьrih / Эsviзre Qaldэrdэ: 05 Рнn 2005 13:08 Baюlэq: Latin alfabe ceviri programi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dostlar, yeni yэlэnэzэ kutlarэm. Эnюallah 2005 yэlэ Tataristan’a hayэrlэ gьnler gцstersin. Kэrэm Tatar yazэюma grubuna bu internet sayfasэnэ yolladэlar. http://www.kultur.gov.tr/gaspirali/default.asp?lehce_ID=7&strDil= Kazan Tatarcasэ’nэ seзin Yukarэya Kiril harfleri ile yazэn. Aюaрэda Latin sцzьnьn saр tarafэnda Зevir’e basэn. Aюaрэdaki kutu iзinde latin harfleri ile зэkacak. 5-10 sahife зevirmek mьmkьn imiю. Selamlar, Vaner ********************************************************************* Bu da orijinal mesaj: Message: 5 Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2005 20:37:33 +0100 From: akay0001 Subject: Latin alfabe ceviri programi Subject: [Turkoloji - Turkology] Digest Number 1043 To: turkoloji@yahoogroups.com Reply-to: turkoloji@yahoogroups.com Message: 3 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:37:23 -0800 (PST) From: Mehmet Kara Subject: Kiril - Latin Alfabe Cevirisi Programi (Ucretsiz) Deрerli Tьrkoloji Grubu Ьyeleri, Yaklaюэk beю yэllэk bir зalэюma sonucunda "Gaspэralэ" adlэ Kiril - Lвtin alfabe зevirisi programэ tamamlanmэю oldu. Цnce "exe" uzantэlэ biзimi ьretilen, ardэndan ASP tabanlэ biзimi geliюtirilen bu program, ьcretsiz olarak bьtьn Tьrk dьnyasэnэn kullanэmэna sunulmuюtur. Programэ kullanacaklarэn http://www.kultur.gov.tr/gaspirali adresine girdikten sonra цncelikle "Yardэm" kэsmэnэ okumalarэnэ цneririz. Hatlardaki yoрunluрu dikkate alarak yapacaрэnэz зevirileri 5-10 sayfa arasэnda sэnэrlandэrmanэz gerekir. Ayrэca hangi lehзeden alfabe зevirisi yapacaksanэz, o lehзeyi seзmeniz gerekmektedir. Diрer ayrэntэlar "Yardэm" kэsmэnda bulunmaktadэr. Bu adresi, Kiril - Latin зevirisi konusuyla ilgilenenlere ve Tьrk Cumhuriyetlerinden tanэdэрэnэz kimselere gцnderirseniz daha зok kiюinin anэlan programdan faydalanmasэna katkэda bulunmuю olursunuz. ....... *********************************** Цskд men al Beri Terkдlь: 30 Apr 2003 23:36 Xдbдr: 702 Qaydan: Cir цste Qaldэrdэ: 05 Рнn 2005 14:45 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- »Asciifier/Deasciifier« digдn qэzэq nдrsд dд bar ikдn: http://hlst.sabanciuniv.edu/TL/ascii.html http://hlst.sabanciuniv.edu/TL/deascii.html Ol program xдreflдrneс xдrдkдlдren цzep, xдrдkдlдrne kire torрэzэla'la. Qэzэq nдrsд ikдn. Qayber зaqta xдrдkдlдr belдn yazэp bulmн iз. _________________ Cir tetrдtkдn Tatar irlдre, Kemgд qaldэrdэрэz illдrne?! Цskд men qdb Qunaq Qaldэrdэ: 26 Рнn 2005 14:40 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >..18 Dek 2004 13:01.. >.. Xazr Sulay aSGp kucsalar, boton torki donyanN yazuwini bolGatp bittirirlar iydi... buw fikrni Abrar Karimullin'nN br kitab'n'da isbat'la'gan iy'di (mAqAlA ciy'n'tig'i). [Sulay uq] nicka "suz'q" awaz'lar'ni zur xarf bilan yaz'uw'ni da min br tatar til'i bilan SOGl'la'n'uw'ci "kompyutr'SCik"lar'dan kur'di'm. bugay. Цskд men Vaner Alper Terkдlь: 24 Sen 2003 12:46 Xдbдr: 54 Qaydan: Zьrih / Эsviзre Qaldэrdэ: 05 Apr 2005 17:58 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QIRIm'dan http://www.qirim.net/main.php?mod/reportaj/rep010_l.php QIRIM.net - Latin elifbege bir tьrlь keзip olamadэq. Ana-babalarэmэznэn nesli bu Latin elifbesini iз de anlap olamaylar - bu bir problemma. Rusiye Qazan Tatarlarэna Latin elifbesini yasaq etti. Bunэ kцz ogэnde tutэp elifbe deniюtirme meselesinde efektif yollar, fikirler nasэl olmalэ? Эsmet YЬKSEL - Qэrэm Tatarlarэ ziyalэlarэnэn en зoq tartэюtэрэ bir meseledir bu. Elbette ki Qэrэm Tatarlarэnэс Latin ariflerine keзmesi kesinlikle kerek. Ancaq юunэ unutmamaq kerek – юimdi en bьyьk problemma - til problemmasэ, Qэrэm Tatarlarэ tilini qayp etmemek kerekler. Orta yaюtaki insanlar, qart insanlar iз Latin ariflerini kцrmegenler. Zaten tilini az qullanрan insanрa bilmegeni bir elifbeni dayatэrsan o zaman en bьyьk zararnэ yine til kцrecektir. Belki bu sцzler iзьn mana aзuvlanacaqlar olacaqtэr, ama men mэnda yaюayэm. Эnsanlarnen iз iзe yaюayэm. Muim olрan insanlarnэс tilini qayэp etmemeleri. Эnsanlar tilni bilseler Latin ariflerine tez keзerler, Men Kiril elifbesinde oqumasэnэ bir kьnde црrendim. Zaten Qэrэmtatarca bilgen yaюlarэmэznэс зoрэsэ Latin elifbesini bileler. Yani, bu meselede dayatmacэ olmayэp sistemli bir юekilde зalэюmaq kerek. Mence Latin ariflerine keзiюten daa зoq muim bir konu - Qэrэm Tatarlarэna ait imla kэlavuzu azэrlamaq olmalэ. Цskд men ЗaR$э Qunaq Qaldэrdэ: 17 Apr 2005 22:24 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- siie it hani imeю programэ vardэ a.q cocugu senin anэnanэ bacэnэsikem Lemm piз bizLE DaLga mэ gecim orospu cocugu siz kimsinniz Lemm ii bi program buLaLэm dedik tek keLime car$эdan annaэza seLamLar Цskд men Azatliq Qunaq Qaldэrdэ: 19 Apr 2005 07:38 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mena min monda ber alfavitni to'za'ttem. Qaragiz, uylagiz... Mona bu texttan: Alsu Qazan turэnda cэr baюqarэrрa cэyэna Baюqortstan prezidentэn saylaw kampaniдse aldэn Alsu Safina цзen «Дtkдyem» cэrэn yazрan Rim Xдsдnov taрэn Alsuрa cэr yazрan. Ul- Qazannэс 1000 yэllэрэna baрэюlana. Xдzerge waqэtta Mдskдwdд icat itьзe kompozitor Rim Xдsдnov Azatlэqnэс Qazan byurosэna юundэy xдbдr cibдrgдn. Mona bu texttan na'rsa' eshla'p yasadim: Yanalif - №....: (draiverlar kira'kmi' hem turkcha'ler angliylar) Alsou Qazan tourinda jir bascqarirga jiyina Bascqortostan priezeedientin saylaw kampaneeyesie aldin Alsou Safeena eucen "Etkeyiem" jirin yazhan Reem Hesenov tahin Alsouha jir yazhan. Oul - Qazannin miengyillihina bahisclana. Heziergie waqitta Meskewde eejat eetuce kompozeetor Reem Hesenov Azatliqning Qazan burosina scundiy heber jeebergen. Цskд men Юamil Эdдrдзe Terkдlь: 01 May 2003 09:49 Xдbдr: 373 Qaydan: Qazan Qaldэrdэ: 19 Apr 2005 20:48 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uqэrlэq ta sineс yazuэс, tik anэс oюamaрan yaрэ - mantнq bulmawэ д hдm e ber xдref belдn bilgelдnд. tцrki tellдr belдn oxюaюlэqlar taрэn da az bulрan Menд юundн variant bдlki maturraq bulэr: (variant qэna) Alsou Kazan touronda jor bashkarorga joyona Bashkortostan prezidenti saylau kampaniaso aldon Alsou Safina icin "Etkeyim" joron yazgan Riym Xesenov tagon Alsouga jor yazgan. Oul - Kazannong mingyollogona bagoshlana. Xezirgi uakotta Meskeude iyjat iytiuci kompozitor Riym Xesenov Azatloknong Kazan biurosona shundoy xeber jiybergen K/Q G/Р tдwge tцrki teldд ber awaznэс qalэnэ hдm neзkдse bulu sдbдple bu variantta da alarnэ ayэrmasqa, рдrдp-farsэ alэnmalarda oзraрan sinharmonizmрa buysэnmaрan sьzlдrne зэрanaqtaрэзa yazarрa tдqdim itelд. рдlдm -> galem; fidдqдr->fiydekar'; юiрer->shigor' i->iy н->oy u->ou ь->iu e, ц->i э, o->o д->e w->u з->c ю->sh (yдki ch - bu oзraqta Qazaq tele belдn oxюaюlэq bulэr) с->ng (yдki n') Yдрni formal rдweюtд teldд 4 suzэq qala, u/y belдn bergд alar taрэn 4 diftong yasнlar, bar qalрan tartэqlar qoyrэq-mцgezsez _________________ Nдrsд sine alрa alэp bara? Uylap qara, uylap qara (Э tuрa-an tel!) Nдrsд bezgд yдrdдm itд? Д? (Э_ ma~matu~ur tel) © Barda RAP cэrзэlarэ Цskд men Azatliq Qunaq Qaldэrdэ: 20 Apr 2005 13:54 Baюlэq: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- tourinda minga bigrek ohshiy Цskд men Soсрэ xдbдrlдrne kьrsдt: bцtenesen1 kцnlek1 atnalэq2 atnalэq1 aylэq3 aylэq6 aylэq1 yэllэq iskesennдn baюlapyaсasэnnan baюlap Bдxдslдr -> Рцmьmi bдxдs Waqэt quюaрэ: GMT +3 1. bit (barэsэ: 1) Эsem Bдxдskд: [ saylнsэ ] Юaw-юu aralaюu----------------Tatar poзmaрэTaюqa basэlmaрan uy-fikerMдdдniдt«Tatar Dцnyasэ»TatNйt mдs'дlдlдre Telebez turэnda----------------Рцmьmi bдxдsSьzleklдr Tel wд Sanaq----------------Sдxifд ostasэSanaqnэ tatarlaюtэru «Azatlэq.org» sдxifдse----------------Mдqдlдlдr turэnda uylarRadнo eюlдw buyэnзa tдqdimnдr «Э tuрan tel» sдxifдse----------------Bдxдslek turэndaKitapxanдneс qunaq-kitabэ«Bezneс Tarнx» qunaq-kitabэ Yaсa cep aзalasэс Xдbдrgд cawap birдlдseс Xдbдrne tцzдtдlmiseс Xдbдrne salalmнsэс Soraюtэruda tawэю birдlmiseс Google'da kitapxдnд